Hear stories directly from Canadians who have experience with auto insurance claims adjusters, no fault insurance or WorkSafeBC.
No fault is no good. My son was in an accident in 1998 in Saskatchewan. You can’t sue anyone and basically everyone gets a free ticket. He also has brain damage.
Karen Mortensonn
Pain and suffering payouts are a myth. Having been through the process I can tell you ICBC has a financial payout that they won’t change. Mediation is a joke. At the end of mediation, the ICBC representative closed her folder and stated, “that’s another one off my plate.” I was still sitting in front of her. My response, “you do realize I am a human being.” Almost 20 years later and I still deal with pain every day.
Ginnie Anglin
We’ve been the victim of no fault insurance in the states. They hit us, didn’t cost THEM a dime. We were on the hook for repairs to our vehicle that was damaged by someone else, and they just walked away. Really bad plan NDP 👎🤬
Wendy McTaggart
No fault is no good. My son was in a accident 1998 in Saskatchewan. You can’t sue anyone they basically get a free ticket. He also has brain damage.
Karen M.
ICBC already took me to the brink of bankruptcy, by denying me compensation for being rear ended and having to suffer with my injuries due to no fault of my own, and leaving me with thousands of dollars to pay in legal fees. But this [no fault insurance] has to be stopped. [sic]
Jaime Duarte
Yes, I have serious concerns about innocent crash victims not being able to retain a lawyer…to lose that right, is in my opinion, fundamentally flawed.
Geoff Sing
This is only the unraveling of what will start by removing at-fault insurance.
It’s going to be terrifying for cyclists in this city once this changeover happens.
I say this as a cyclist and as a motorist.
Stephanie Hendy
With the ICBC no fault plan who determines what the definition of a minor injury is and what is the appropriate treatment? How would injuries that have caused incapacity and serious impairment be categorized and by who? If arbitrary limits are imposed will the injured person be able to stop worrying about their case and concentrate on getting well. Not everyone is able to advocate for themselves, what happens to those individuals ?
If the no fault legislation passes following a crash your prognosis and your capability to recover will depend on luck and being fortunate enough to have appropriate care provided. When your life depends on your ability to recover it should not be reliant on luck.
Maureen Wint
ICBC cannot be trusted and I can tell you from an injured person’s perspective just why they are loosing [sic] so much money… they fight you tooth and nail even if you are clearly and plainly injured. I took my fight to the Supreme Court last year and this week the judge ruled entirely in my favour and awarded me the settlement I was seeking all along (after a lengthy and expensive court battle). 5 years of fighting me with hundreds of hours of [ICBC] lawyers and adjusters working solely to deny me coverage and fair compensation. How much did that cost them [ICBC]?
Nat Raedwulf
ICBC is horrible, not fair to the person paying insurance for many years and when you get injured from a hit and run (later found person who did it). Two years later still suffering from pain and can’t work, young mom with children, now suffering no wages no income, her child suffering from severe neck pain, months later MRI shows torn rotator cuff in the shoulder joint too. Doctor kept sending them for soft tissue damage, massage, meds and sleeping pills. Their own specialist requested MRI. Both suffer severe damage 18 month and 27 months later. Such suffering for young people who did not cause the accident. No benefits to cover any meds or physio or massages. Doctor did a poor poor job of helping them. Asking ICBC for help, disgusted! Why do we even pay insurance?
Theresa KostiukWess
Yes, I have serious concerns about innocent crash victims not being able to retain a lawyer…to lose that right, is in my opinion, fundamentally flawed.
Geoff Sing
Tried it in Manitoba. You become a welfare recipient trying to cheat the system! Don’t do it. There is absolutely no discretion to take into account your personal circumstances.
Diane Hartley Holley
My son was in a car accident in Manitoba and he couldn’t get nothing because of no fault insurance.
Selma Stenbeck
I’ve been fighting for justice for my daughter for 8.5 years. …8.5 years and I still don’t know what happened to my daughter. What I do know is she was hit by a speeding dump truck pulling a dump and suffered catastrophic injuries that she will have to live with for the rest of her life along with now having epilepsy due to head trauma. She has no memory of who she was, her life, her family, her friends. She was left a shell, we brought her home to a world she no longer understands and isn’t capable of retaining information. Our story is 8.5 years in the making and we’ve personally seen how ICBC truly works with victims. 😡
Teresa Mcgillis
“No fault” basically means that although you may pay less in initial premiums, you pay again if it’s necessary to make a claim. Unfortunately [I] have experienced the New Zealand no fault system; the driver who hit us admitted complete fault but we still paid the full deductible on our written-off rental vehicle and our painful “minor” injuries still required us to alter remaining travel plans. “No fault” is more of a gamble than “insurance” in the true sense of the word.
David Maddison
For crash victims – survivors of brain injury as a result of a car crash – losing out on the opportunity for earning capacity and pain and suffering is an absolute shame. Innocent crash victims have great potential and as result of a crash, of no fault of their own, they have lost out for this opportunity and quite frankly they should be compensated for what they have lost, or potentially lost.
Geoff Sing
I do not believe that no fault is a system of insurance that any province should have. It is not the best thing, in many cases, for the survivor of a brain injury or any other disability.
Barb Butler
In the process of changing their rehabilitation program to an Enhanced Care/No-Fault system ICBC has been anything but open, ethical and transparent. Our experience in working with ICBC has shown an overall lack of compassion to those injured in motor vehicle accidents and dedication to their recovery. How can we believe ICBC will provide either ICBC customers who have been injured or the health care professionals who provide the intervention with anything close to these values?
[Excerpt from a letter signed: Hilary Drummond, B.Sc.O.T. Occupational Therapist; Tracy L. Witty, OTD, Reg.OT(BC), CLCP; Claudia Walker, B.Sc. O.T. (C) CCLCP; Fran Goldberg, B.Sc (Psych), B.Sc. (O.T.), J.D.; and Anonymous, Occupational Therapist]
ICBC adjusters often refuse to provide medically recommended services and supports now, what will happen when the clients have no recourse except to call their ICBC adjuster, who in my experience seldom return calls.
Hilary Drummond, Occupational Therapist
OT Alliance BC wishes to publicly express our significant concern with allowing ICBC to proceed with establishing a No-Fault system. We believe that this system will cause extreme hardship to the citizens of British Columbia. Between us, we have many years of experience both working as therapists and providing intervention to clients with ICBC claims. We’ve seen how administration of ICBC benefits has evolved recently and now, we have limited faith that the new Enhanced Care model will be effective in helping people return to their lives and receive the support to which they paid for and are entitled to receive.
[Excerpt from a letter signed: Hilary Drummond, B.Sc.O.T. Occupational Therapist; Tracy L. Witty, OTD, Reg.OT(BC), CLCP; Claudia Walker, B.Sc. O.T. (C) CCLCP; Fran Goldberg, B.Sc (Psych), B.Sc. (O.T.), J.D.; and Anonymous, Occupational Therapist]
There are many allied health care professionals similar to our group who currently provide services to ICBC. We are afraid to speak openly for fear of being black-listed if we speak up publicly against an Insurance Company which contributes to our livelihood. However, we know that the new system [no fault insurance] being proposed will cause harm to catastrophically injured clients who do not have a voice and do not know how to navigate the complexities of a Civil Resolution Tribunal.
[Excerpt from a letter signed: A concerned group of multi-disciplinary health care providers, who must remain anonymous for fear of repercussion from an already powerful ICBC.]
For crash victims – survivors of brain injury as a result of a car crash – losing out on the opportunity for earning capacity and pain and suffering is an absolute shame. Innocent crash victims have great potential and as result of a crash, of no fault of their own, they have lost out for this opportunity and quite frankly they should be compensated for what they have lost, or potentially lost.
Geoff Sing
Occupational therapists focus on helping individuals return to the activities of life, such as work, and independent living skills within a variety of disabilities and diagnoses. One of our roles in the past years when working for clients who have sustained injuries has been to assist them in getting the services they need to get back to work and life. ICBC has a blatant conflict of interest as they represent both parties in motor vehicle accidents and so have a vested interest in NOT providing service. Now clients have the option of retaining a lawyer who will ensure they get the services and supports that they are entitled to. What will happen when they adopt a No-fault system? When you or your family are significantly injured in a motor vehicle accident will you have the support you need to get better? In my experience I do not believe you will.
Hilary Drummond, Occupational Therapist
Expanded rehab benefits are useless if they are denied outright on an increasing and arbitrary basis. I offer two of many examples. First, funding for homemaking benefits has doubled as of April 1, 2019, but every single client I have recommended homemaking benefits for has been denied any and all homemaking assistance outright. Second, the $1000.00 discretionary rehab benefit was implemented April 1, 2019 to allow coverage for items not traditionally covered under Part 7. But it seems that the discretion is based on the whim of the adjuster, and with a single exception, all requests I have made for use of this funding (e.g. mattress after back surgery, noise cancelling headphones after brain injury, etc.) have been denied without provision of any rationale.
Fran Goldberg, B.Sc (Psych), B.Sc. (O.T.), J.D. Occupational Therapist
Expanded rehab benefits are useless if they are denied outright on an increasing and arbitrary basis. I offer two of many examples. First, funding for homemaking benefits has doubled as of April 1, 2019, but every single client I have recommended homemaking benefits for has been denied any and all homemaking assistance outright. Second, the $1000.00 discretionary rehab benefit was implemented April 1, 2019 to allow coverage for items not traditionally covered under Part 7. But it seems that the discretion is based on the whim of the adjuster, and with a single exception, all requests I have made for use of this funding (e.g. mattress after back surgery, noise cancelling headphones after brain injury, etc.) have been denied without provision of any rationale.
Fran Goldberg, B.Sc (Psych), B.Sc. (O.T.), J.D. Occupational Therapist
Case managing [ICBC] adjusters are not therapists and do not have the education required to provide the kind of support British Columbians require to make a recovery from many different types of injuries. Occupational therapists are regulated health professionals who service the public first ensuring their focus is providing timely and cost-efficient intervention that will enable our clients to return to the daily tasks in their lives. … These people are our communities, families and children and will be left without the professional support they require and are entitled to. What will be the long-term costs not only in money but in lives if you move forward with this decision [no fault insurance].
Hilary Drummond, Occupational Therapist
In my many years of experience working with clients for the ICBC Corporation I have learned I cannot trust what ICBC tells me or believe they will do as they have said. This has been proven to me over and over again both in dealing with clients and in my work assisting them to develop new programs. If I cannot trust ICBC to provide the care and medical services my clients need now, when there are options for people to fall back on if the adjuster is not being helpful, how can I begin to believe that they will serve the people of British Columbia when they have no accountability.
Hilary Drummond, Occupational Therapist
Clients with traumatic brain injuries are unable to advocate for themselves when they need services. While services may be offered to them, they sometimes decline therapy and need time, along with patient and experienced treatment providers to manage their care. Within the new model, adjusters who manage these care needs are in a direct conflict of interest if decisions are made to withhold care, if a brain injured client becomes non-cooperative. Yes, this saves on insurance dollars; however, it creates a significant gap in care.
[Excerpt from a letter signed: A concerned group of multi-disciplinary health care providers, who must remain anonymous for fear of repercussion from an already powerful ICBC.]
Why has there been no open public consultation on the new model of care [no fault insurance]? We are gravely concerned that closed consultations do not create transparency in terms of recommendations offered by disability groups, health care provider groups and injured clients’ experiences on ways to improve the system.
[Excerpt from a letter signed: A concerned group of multi-disciplinary health care providers, who must remain anonymous for fear of repercussion from an already powerful ICBC.]
Over the past few years, I have received numerous “good news” statements from ICBC, citing their compassion based model [no fault insurance], which supposedly offers multiple improvements in care, expanded rehab benefits, fairness, and peace of mind for clients. With all due respect to those whose intent was to truly provide these improvements, the “compassion based” approach remains theoretical and has not been put into practice. On a regular and increasing basis, I bear witness to adversarial and uninformed adjusters making decisions causing unnecessary suffering for many injured clients.
Fran Goldberg, B.Sc (Psych), B.Sc. (O.T.), J.D. Occupational Therapist
Why has there been no open public consultation on the new model of care [no fault insurance]? We are gravely concerned that closed consultations do not create transparency in terms of recommendations offered by disability groups, health care provider groups and injured clients’ experiences on ways to improve the system.
[Excerpt from a letter signed: A concerned group of multi-disciplinary health care providers, who must remain anonymous for fear of repercussion from an already powerful ICBC.]
So many adjusters are disrespectful not only of the therapists they hire, but of the injured clients. They argue about medical interventions that have been physician prescribed, drag approvals out and generally make it very hard for us to do our work and for the client to recover. I cannot see how these same adjusters coming from a place of denial, defense and disrespect can possibly change to one of actually supporting and being proactive for the health needs of those involved in motor vehicle accidents. I can only imagine how people will not get the service they need and then have NO resource to help them as they can no longer hire someone who understands the complicated system that exists.”
Hilary Drummond, Occupational Therapist
Clients with high-level spinal cord injuries (quadriplegia) often require 24-hour care. Will there be transparency prior to voting in the new system in terms of the caps placed on care dollars. If the Insurance Corporation is truly in the business of enhancing care, will all consultations be shared publicly with the residents of British Columbia, so that they are aware of what this new insurance is offering to them for less money?
[Excerpt from a letter signed: A concerned group of multi-disciplinary health care providers, who must remain anonymous for fear of repercussion from an already powerful ICBC.]
[I] have provided service to hundreds of people who have been involved in motor vehicle accidents. I have dealt with hundreds of ICBC adjusters; some who listened, cared and worked hard with me to help people get better, others who did not return calls or emails, argued with physicians about clients needs and generally made it very difficult for me to do my job and help people get back to their work and life activities. I have some grave concerns about the proposed changes [no fault insurance] in ICBC and how the government and the corporation are going about making these.
Hilary Drummond, Occupational Therapist
The “compassion based” face of ICBC is, with all due respect, disingenuous. If I cannot trust what is being said about the current system, it would be foolish for me to trust that “enhanced care” [no fault insurance] will be better. ICBC statements and media reports paint a picture of increased caring and compassion in their provision of rehab benefits over the past few years. Press releases are often made in concert with smiling representatives of professional associations (who speak without canvassing their members). Clients, families, and individual health care providers have no forum to speak their truths.
Fran Goldberg, B.Sc (Psych), B.Sc. (O.T.), J.D. Occupational Therapist
We plead with the government to stop this process, evaluate how it is being designed and how it will impact the citizens of British Columbia. Talk to those of us who have provided treatment to British Columbians injured in motor vehicle accidents for years, in an open and honest manner and use our expertise to make the system more effective both in cost and in results. ICBC consultations should be transparent, as there should be nothing to hide if all parties are truly working to enhance the care of injured MVA clients.
[Excerpt from a letter signed: Hilary Drummond, B.Sc.O.T. Occupational Therapist; Tracy L. Witty, OTD, Reg.OT(BC), CLCP; Claudia Walker, B.Sc. O.T. (C) CCLCP; Fran Goldberg, B.Sc (Psych), B.Sc. (O.T.), J.D.; and Anonymous, Occupational Therapist
One of the tactics ICBC has used to create the illusion of consulting with occupational therapists in the process of setting up meetings with participants of the Private Practice Group. This is a group that I started in the early 1990’s with another seasoned occupational therapist. The intent was to provide support to each other with business issues. ICBC has asked any occupational therapist from this group who is interested in providing input to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement that will not even allow them to talk to their colleagues in the group. How can this be pathway to a transparent, open dialogue in the best interest of all British Columbians? It is another attempt to muzzle concerned occupational therapists who wonder how their clients needs will be met in a system where there is no support.
Hilary Drummond, Occupational Therapist
